Hello There,
Now we all know about what happened at Oneness Temple…
Some info is Genuine & rest is Rumors…
Well…. Whatever the Truth might be…
It Will soon come out!!
However,
The Questions which I've been getting in emails & heard from people so far are:-
What did AmmaBhagavan say about the stampede on April 22nd?What is their explanation to the entire world for that incident on 22nd?
If They already know that this would happen(as they are divine beings). Then why did they say that people would have thunderous miracles in their livesand great transformations would occur just by entering into the Temple and create that much hype?
These questions are FACTS which have no answers YET..
But what is the ACTUAL FACT?
Why did this happened at first place??
& various other Questions Like these which might lessen our faith from ONENESS & Amma Bhagwan.
Well…Here I am today;
Trying to reply to your MIND's Questions…
(PLEASE NOTE THIS MAIL IS PURELY BASED ON MY VIEWS,
I DON'T INTENT TO HURT ANYONE OR TO PLAY WITH SENTIMENTS OF PEOPLE HERE,
I AM JUST TRYING TO ANSWER FEW QUESTIONS ASKED..
IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT… PLEASE FEEL FREE TO DELETE THIS MAIL)
The "MIND" that is the HUMAN MIND is good in logic;
It's a good justifier & is analytical.
It always tries to find a "Reason" for everything & it is satisfied only when something is PROVED in our DIMENSION.
Now, I don't completely deny or disagree with the questions raised by people…
Even I had booked my tickets & was all set to go for the oneness temple opening
Then when I heard about this incident I was upset…
especially with the news about the death of the people…
Hence, to calm down…
I meditated that day… I asked my antaryamin (Holy Spirit) about this…
Then I got the answer to all my questions…
The Answer was:-
Jesus Christ Says, "The Son of Man is the farmer who plants the good seed. The field is the world, and the good seed represents the people of the Kingdom. The weeds are the people who belong to the evil one. The enemy who planted the weeds among the wheat is the devil. The harvest is the end of the world, and the harvesters are the angels.
"Just as the weeds are sorted out and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the world. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace,where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father's Kingdom. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand!
In other words… a "Filtration Process"
If you are able to understand the meaning of the above Para of Christ…
You might have already got the answer!
If not...
Then read on….
Some one Quoted this:-
"This happened only because of creating more unnecessary publicity and because of the failure of Dasas(so called divine beings) in PLANNING the event."
Unnecessary publicity??? ?...
Well..
Another Problem of our So called "Intellectual Mind" is…
When we are asked to "PAY" for something
We ask…
"Why are you taking money for these spiritual things??"
"Why don't you give us enlightenment without taking money?"
"Why does Oneness University asks for Money for the courses, deeksha etc??"
This time since it was an important event...an event we all waited for since so many years or should I say Lifetimes…
Hence, It was "Free" for all &since it was a "FREE ENTRY" All thought to take the advantage of this!!
All booked the TICKETS...Rooms in MOTELS/HOTELS, etc
Because….
We all like the "F" WORD!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
That is the word "FREE"
If you were asked to Pay some Amount of Rupees or Dollars here,
The number of people would have been less!!!
So, even if it's FREE…
We all have the PROBLEM with EXCESSIVE CROWD or somethingor the other reason!!
& if we are asked to PAY...
We don't want to PAY!!
Do you see the MIND GAME Here????
Someone asked….
"Why do you say that "we didn't expect those many people"?
You could have directly said to the media that it is AmmaBhagavan' s will that some people should die and many should get injured on the inaugural day."
Well…
Yes, those many people weren't really expected…
Those who say that the dasas (guides) & sevaks weren't able to handle the situation…
Well, let me ask you this… if you feel so bad about this situation…
Will you come as a representative & volunteer to handle the crowd next time when there are darshans at oneness temple???
If your answer is"YES"…….GREAT!!!!
If "NO" or "Not Sure" then at least don't Comment on things, because it's easy to CRITICIZE then to ACT…
Its not easy to handle a crowd of more then5,000,00 to 10,00,000 people!!!
& if you think that it is Amma Bhagavan's will that some people should die and many should get injured on the inaugural day..
Well If that's the case..
We might soon have WORLD WAR 3 & DOOMS DAY!!
Because if GOD wants HUMANS to DIE… then this will soon happen!
But I guess the concept of Shri Amma bhagwan is to SAVE Humanity!
However, if the Consciousness doesn't increase overall in this world..
We will have to face the consequences…
(Many Prophecies are there to PROVE that)
Now, if you ask me…
"What did AmmaBhagavan say about the stampede on April 22nd?What is their explanation to the entire world for that incident on 22nd?"
I honestly don't know what's the answer!!
But the problem is that we all EXPECT Miracleswhich are Out Of the WORLD!!
Well.. Yes AMMA BHAGWAN CAN DO THE MIRACLES &THEY have supernatural powers,etc….
But those who ask
"They already know that this would happen(as they are divine beings). Then why did they say that people would have thunderous miracles in their livesand great transformations would occur just by entering into the Temple and create that much hype?"
I would say…
Even Lord Rama didn't know that Ravana will come & take away Sita…
Even Jesus never knew that he will be crucified…
The matter of Fact is...
Even if they knew that it would happen...
They would have never revealed it…
Because it was a divine plan,
A Divine GAME!
Something which a normal HUMAN cannot comprehend.
We all should understand that they were all"AVTARS"
& so are Amma bhagwan!
An Avatar is "Manifestation of GOD in a human Body"
Like a "NARAYANA" becomes narayana with the help of all the naras.
Similarly, even amma bhagwan are depended on Human consciousness in whole…
Which means that yours, mine & everyone's consciousness counts!
They have supernatural powers but they too have to SUFFER because of HUMAN KARMA..
Since they are in a HUMAN BODY…
BUT THEN WE EXPECT TOO MUCH FROM OUR LORD
&
EXPECT "INSTANT RESULTS"
We Expect GOD to Make us millionaire in just few days!!
(As if GOD is an ATM machine!!)
IN RETURN HOW MUCH DO YOU THANK HIM???
DON'T REPLY TO ME & TELL ME HOW MUCH YOU THANK YOUR LORD…
ASK YOUR "INNER SELF"
Now,
All things being said…
I would again like to come to the same point with which I started..
The question over here is not of what happened... Why did it happened… what's the next plan…??
The question here is…
"DO YOU STILL TRUST AMMA & BHAGWAN???"
After April 22nd's incident,
Most of the devotees across the globe are in a "Break downsituation"
Not because of this incident…
But due to some other reason which cannot be explained or which they themselves aren't aware of.
The question to be asked here is…
Is There a MASS KARMAVIMOCHAN GOING ON???
(Kamavimochan means clearing or cleansing of HUMAN KARMAS)
To add to my earlier explanation about the filtration process,
Here are two more Parables of Jesus.
Jesus says by the Parables of the Hidden Treasure and the Pearl
"The Kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure that a man discovered hidden in a field. In his excitement, he hid it again and sold everything he owned to get enough money to buy the field.
"Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a merchant on the look out for choice pearls. When he discovered a pearl of great value, he sold everything he owned and bought it!
Parable of the Fishing Net
"Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a fishing net that was thrown into the water and caught fish of every kind. When the net was full,they dragged it up onto the shore, sat down, and sorted the good fish into crates, but threw the bad ones away. That is the way it will be at the end of the world. The angels will come and separate the wicked people from the righteous, throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Do you understand all these things?"
So,
I guess,
The Filtration process is going on here…
Only those with TRUE DEVOTION & FAITH IN GOD& in ONENESS Will now be there with Amma Bhagwan…
Hence, IN THE END OF THE DAY….
ITS YOUR WISH!!!
But on the JUDGMENT DAY…
It will be GODS WISH!!
I don't know if I have answered your questions or not..
I don't know your reaction after reading this article…
It wont matter to anyone what you think because it's just your"Perception"
However, I would like to hear from you on this….
Let me know…
Always at the lotus feet of Shri Amma & Bhagwan.
(AT ANY COST!)
Saturday, May 3, 2008
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15 comments:
The consecration was supposed to be held on 22Apr08. Did you know that the ceremony was already held on 20Apr08? This was attended by VIPs and NRIs. So a private ceremony is held behind closed doors and the public is informed that the ceremony is to be held on 22Apr08. That’s supposed to be Oneness??? Here is a blatant case of class distinction and the monstrous structure is supposed to be for mankind!!
I am sure you knew that there were children that had died in the stampede. So were they part of the “Filtration process”? Kids who are yet to discover the world let alone the evil in the world are to be filtered out. What were they Genghis Khan or Hitler in their previous life? The Oneness movement is clearly based on the Vedanta and here you bring in Christian scriptures to explain the Filtration process. This is exactly what the oneness movement does to explain everything that is challenged.
It’s very disturbing to see how bhakti can make a person delusional. No matter what happens, when you pray to Amma Bhagwan and it does not get answered it is explained away as your karma, not releasing the “I” ness etc etc etc etc etc etc. And people go into a stage of self delusion and believe even what is not! I have been part of the processes even up to the Deepening process. What has happened is no different then what I achieve doing pranayama and meditation at home. People were being asked to pay huge sums of money for the processes and for meeting Amma Bhagwan as well as donations for the sole purpose of building the Golden temple. In the mean time a huge campus is opened in Fiji. Where did the money for the Fiji campus come from?
I was part of the group that was into self denial and self delusion that Amma Bhagawan was real and legitimate. I had attended the initiate 3 day process, then the 7 day process, then the 14 day process and then the Maha Deeksha. I fooled myself into thinking that something happened. After all we are intelligent people and will not admit that we have been conned. To admit to being conned is to admit that we are fools.
So I had been fooling myself that things have happened and even made stories to convince myself and others about the effects of the Enlightenment process during the experiencing sharing in satsangs.
Some time back I realized what was truly happening and I saw the way we (or rather I since I can speak for myself although there are a lot of people who have come to this realization) were being fooled.
For a long time I disassociated from the Amma Bhagwan con game and continued the path myself and followed the divine. After a few years people started hounding me for the Deepening process. I said to myself “Okay, I am open enough to admit I may be wrong about Amma Bhagwan and the whole sham. Let me go for the Deepening process and keep an open mind and see what happens.” So what happened? Nothing other than what I normally experience when I practice the Pranayama, Kriya and mediation at home!
I suggest that you take a real honest, hard look at yourselves and see how you are being fooled. I know that your egos will not allow you to admit that you were wrong. But that’s all I can do. Just point the facts. The rest is up to you. You can take a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. Just like that I can point out what is wrong; it is up to you to see through the veil of deception.
Trust yourself… deep down you know what is the truth. But the ego will not let up so easily. Let me explain to you how the ego plays the games that Amma Bhagwan misuses for their benefit. You know the story of the “Emperor’s New Clothes” where the emperor was fooled into thinking that the imaginary clothes were real and wore it and walked around his kingdom. Everyone who saw him did not want to admit that they were not special enough to see the clothes and pretended to see the clothes and said “Wonderful, Excellent etc etc”. Only when a small boy saw the Emperor and said that he is naked did everyone realize the truth.
I and others in the group ad gone for the 14 day enlightenment process. No one got enlightened. But everyone (including me) pretended that something happened and convinced ourselves that we were enlightened. One person in our group shouted that nothing happened and told this to everyone. Everyone sympathized with him and even I said that he was not open to the deeksha that is why he is saying this. Basically everyone tried to justify that the enlightenment process works and that person was wrong in saying that nothing happened. I remember my conversation with a fellow devotee. We were discussing about the guy who said that nothing happened and that all ths was a scam. The fellow devotee said “The enlightenment process really worked on him. He is enlightened. He just doesn’t know it”. I know realize what nonsense that was. Have you heard of anyone who was enlightened and did not know it?!! See the level of the self delusion what everyone is in? Even the small boy / man saying “He is naked” / “Nothing happened” is still not opening our eyes.
Famous western devotees like Freddie, Kiara Windrider were declared by Bhagawan as fully enlightened. When they also realized the scam and deceit and left the oneness movement, they were branded as not enlightened. Have you heard of anyone being enlightened and later becoming unenlightened?!! In the Vedas it s said of Brahman/God “baktha paradheena” and “Yathoktha Kari” meaning God will come in the form the devotee sees or desires and God does as what the devotee wants. Amma Bhagwan is exploiting this as God will give you what you pray for even if it’s through the concept of Amma Bhagwan.
You need to really see for yourself what I real. Look deep down within you. Even if it is painful look. The ego will not allow you to realize that you have been fooled. Only when you truly look can you see the truth that Amma Bhagawan are cheating people.
bruce
how are you?my name is rajesh.i am an amma bhagavan devotee for the past 2 years.i have read your written statement about amma bhagavan stating that they are wrong.
bruce amma bhagavan never asked u to trust them.if u r happy in doing pranayama,meditation and other kriyas..u just continue that...bcoz amma bhagavans aim is to make human free from suffering its happening there to u through pranayama then y u want amma bhagavan,right?
but make sure that u spread happiness to the world if u do that u r amma bhagavan.
amma bhagavan are avatars....u will realise that i am sure..instead of discussing with somebody else about amma bhagavan directly question them u will get answers.
-amma bhagavan.
Hi rajesh,
Maybe you are right in your opinion that amma bhagwan did not ask anyone to believe in them. But they did promise enlightenment to anyone who attends the enlightenment processes. At one point bhagwan stated that the elightenment state will be higher than that of Buddha or Ramana Maharshi. There have ben instances which I have personally seen where bhagwan has stated the time of disillusion of the ego. So when you say that I was not expected to believe in amma bhagwan so in effect all the statements that they have stated are not to be believed. In other words lies. No body likes being lied to. I am not concerned with the agenda of amma bhagwan. All I am saying is that a lot of money was being taken and nothing was returned although this was promised. Even when all the people had not "received" enlightenement the claim is still being promoted.
All I am asking is- why? and I do not want to hear any retorical beating around the bush answer. Just a plain honest answer. There is a thin line between belief and self deillusion and I have been on both sides. So if you choose to reply I will appreciate your honest down to earth answer. Thanks
hi bruce...
h r u?...i read ur comment.so nice of u.but truly speaking amma bhagavan are avatars that's all i can say.totally i am in dharma for more than 5 years but out of 5 years for the first 3 years i didnt have any belief on them i was just researching and testing them..but in the last two years there was a dramatic changes in my life..
there is no necessity to explain all these...rether if i am it is just bcoz of that i dont like u to loose ur faith on amma and bhagavan...
i applogise u if u had been affected moneywise by the dharma..i give my 10% of salary to bhagavan but it is purely based on my freewill there is no compulsion from anyside..they never asked my 10% of the salary..
amma and bhagavan are not to be explained they have to be experimented.
ok bye bruce if i am wrong r if my words hurt u pls forgive me...v all have come from one source if not amma and bhagavan that one source will guide us always..take care..
nothing happens without a reason..take care bruce bye for now.
Hi rajesh,
I appreciate your candid reply and I understand where you are coming from. All I have ever asked for was a honest answer. Every where I got those carnival replies and does not address the question at all. You have your faith and I do not question it. I opened up to Amma Bhagawan and was really disappointed and hurt. If some one were to ask to be taught how to believe, no one can. Since no one can teach "how" to believe. Thats why everyone looks at their induvidual expereinces to guide them. In your case you believe. Great! In my case, I tried and nothing happened. So how can any one expect me to believe? What I don't like is people trying to shove down my throat their beliefs and concepts and expecting me to follow. I appreciate your sincerity and wish you all the blessings of the divine (in what ever form you choose).
Hi Bruce,
How are you doing ?
Well,I read thru the conversation between you and Rajesh. Yes, unless you experience you cant believe it and you feel like no body giving right answer..well point is that you have some basic idea about god and you would like to see the god in the ideology.So you wont agree upon others truth.But frankly speaking once you attend the deeksha/process classes of Amma-Bhagwan with heart ,surely you will find anser to your question provided you have good relationship with your parents.Rest all you leave it to Amm-Bhagwan.
Hi Ravikala,
It’s interesting that you can garner what I know about God from what I have written. I have not written all I know but was just addressing the issue of the deeksha processes not being what they claimed it to be. May be if you had read carefully what I had written, you would not write “once you attend the deeksha/process classes of Amma-Bhagwan with heart ,surely you will find anser to your question”. I have attended ALL the processes that the Oneness University offered. All the processes from 2003 onwards till the Deepening process in 2007. I am being very truthful when I say that I had completely involved myself into the aspect of Amma Bhagavan. The Deesksha was and is being promoted as an instantaneous transformation to enlightenment. I repeat instantaneous. So why were the dasas and acharyas and Bhagavan himself saying that the next process will do the transformation? Come on, if the first deeksha (which is supposed to be instantaneous) does not do the trick how can the 10th or the 100th bring about the transformation?
When I asked a dasa why the transformation was not happening, I get a reply “Do you know what enlightenement is? You don’t know. What you are going through IS enlightenment.” So you know what I did? I decided to go out and find out what is enlightenment. I studied psychology, semantics, quantum theory, Advaita vendanta, linguistics, General semantics etc. I read and studied the teachings of Ramana Maharishi, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Shankara, Jiddu Krishnamurthi, Osho, Buddha, Gurdjeiff, Krishna Menon (Atmananda) and others. I have meditated, contemplated and discovered for myself. I poured over Yoga Vasista and Astavakara Gita. I pondered the meaning and sunk in to the core.
So you may ask me where this has got me to. You know what? I don’t care! What I know about myself is more than enough to understand what it is all about. Also I have clearly understood the methodology used by the Oneness University to keep people in. I do not need a God or Avataar to take me anywhere.
I know you won’t understand and I don’t care if you do. Ultimately, if you are courageous enough to see what is happening and the drive for the truth is molten and fiery within you, then only will you dare to seek it. Otherwise you will still be content with sitting in front of a picture and saying you are flying through heaven and seeing Gods and playing cricket with them.
Ravikala,
When you wrote "you would like to see the god in the ideology" do you what this process is called? Its called anthropomorphisim. I have studied that too and I have understood that this is one of the methods that the Oneness niversity uses to get people to believe.
If you take an honest look at what your beliefs are about Amma Bhagavan you will see that everything that you know and feel about them have been told to you. The rest the mind takes over to contort various experiences and justify yourself that they are true. But I know you will never take a cold truthful look at yourself because you have already invested a lot of yourself and have made it your identity. By being truthful to your self you stand to lose your whole belief system built around Amma Bhagavan.
In the year 1929 a speech given by Jiddu Krishnamurti contained the statement “My only concern is to set men absolutely, unconditionally free.”
Does this ring a bell?!
Bhagavan used to work in the school of Jiddu Krishnamurti and many of the teachings are plagiarized from the teachings of Jiddu Krishnamurti and here is an example of a clear rip off. The slogan of the Oneness Movement is "TO SET HUMANITY TOTALLY AND UNCONDITIONALLY FREE".
Here is a clear example of the con and yet it is claimed that the teachings of Amma Bhagavan are different from what was taught before by anyone.
I am reminded of a line from the Bible- “Having eyes, see ye not? And having ears, hear ye not?” Mark 8:18.
Hey guys,
I have gone through the entire conversation of each and every one. This projects the ideology and views people have on a process. Whatever we do depends on our belief and experiences. I would like to just add few words. I feel Oneness University provides Psychology tools which will help us to overcome the suffering or depression and so...Just use them and set yourself free and get released out of your tensions. Moreover I would like to add that Oneness University is not teaching something new which no one knows till date. But they are just trying to put the things in a different way which can be understood and followed by all easily. Hope I have not hurt anyones views...
Hi Arathi,
So what you are saying is that Oneness University is nothing but a Psychiatrist who addresses people’s mental disorders. So is Enlightenment release from mental disorders? If that’s the case then all Psychiatrist around the world are giving enlightenment to their patients. Oneness University has recently taken the stance of helping people release from psychological problems. Prior to 2006, they were always talking about “Giving Enlightenment through processes- Primarily through Deeksha”.
When you say “this projects the ideology and views people have on a process” you are assuming that I have not attended any processes and am speaking from assumptions. Believe me Arathi, I have attended ALL the processes since 2001 all the way up to “Deepening process”. So I think you will agree that I am NOT some newbee that is putting forth his 2 cents of an opinion without knowing anything about it.
As you can see in the exchange between Rajesh and myself, you will see that he has never stated why the Oneness University is not giving enlightenment although they have been PROMISING that they will. Each time I have asked anyone there is always an escapist reply that does not answer my question. Even now your response is just that. My question- “Why is Oneness University not giving Enlightenment like they have said they will”. Your response- “Oneness University provides Psychology tools which will help us to overcome the suffering or depression”. Doses this answer why Enlightenment is not given? No. So just answer my question.
You know when I was in the Amma Bhagavan frenzy, I used to say that Amma Bhagavan is the savior of humanity and they will enlighten the whole world. If I had really believed it, I wouldn’t search on the internet looking for opposition to Amma Bhagavan. But I used to search and then tell the people who were saying that Amma Bhagavan are scamming people that they have not surrendered to Amma Bhagavan, just believe in Amma Bhagavan etc etc.
Aren’t you also doing the same thing? If you really believe in Amma Bhagavan you will definitely not be here trying to defend the Oneness University. Its like this, you know you are alive. Would you go around looking for blogs or discussion groups and try to prove you are indeed alive? No! You know for a fact you are alive and there is no need to prove anything. Even if somebody says you are not alive, you would just laugh it away and not even take the effort to prove them wrong. Because you know for a fact that you are indeed alive.
Because deep down you doubt the reality of Amma Bhagavan but not willing to acknowledge it, you are coming to a blog like this and say things like Amma Bhagavan are real like you want to prove to the other. But in reality you just want to convince yourself to believe that Amma Bhagavan are what they say they are even though you know deep down you doubt them.
Its bad when you lie to others. Its worse when you lie to yourself.
Hi Arathi,
Oh, just in case you may want to fling that relationship with parents is key to the divinity to Amma Bhagavan. I have a wonderful relationship with my parents. I have a wonderful relationship with my wife. We are best of friends besides being spouses. My child adores me and we do the same. We all stay togather and there is not problem.
This was there even before we came into Amma Bhagavan.
So now the only thing you may have left to justify why enlightenment is not "given" to me is my past life karma.
If past life karma is a problem then the "divinity" of Amma Bhagavan should check people if there is any past life karma that will prevent enlightenment and then only allow one how has no past life karmic block to pay and attend processes.
Hi
very nice to see your Blog
Hi Bruce
I see you have spent a long time writing the blogs. What is your story? If I gathered right, were with the Kalki movement once and not anymore now?
Hi Zorrinn,
Yes, thats true i was with the Kalki movement for about 5 to 6 years. When I realized that the movement was taking people on a wild goose chase in the name of enlightenment, I left. Please note that this is not my blog. I just leave my comments on this blog.
When one is in the movement, it is quite difficult to see the truth when you are seeing by the movement's and self imposed jaundiced eyes and seeing yellow. No amount of scrubing the things we see will change the color from yellow. It is only when we treat the jaundiced eyes can we change the yellow.
My intention is to provide the perspective that is clear of the incorrect indoctorines of the movement so that people are aware of the scam in the name of enlightenment.
Most people in the movement look at Amma Bhagavan as the grand magician to solve their problems in life. But there are a few who are really serious about the path of enlightenment. I just want to highlight the mind games that the movement uses in order that the serious people do not waste time and energy in the movement.
Its one thing to bring a horse to water. its another to make it drink.
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